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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Interesting EVent Reply with quote

Well, Thursday I was going home from work and just as I got on the highway, I noticed that I had lost power to the motors. Nothing, zip, nada... I coasted to a stop on the shoulder of the road and shut everything down and tried the ignition again. Bupkiss... Tried several more times and nix on the power. All the other things worked except no motor power. After disconnecting the main power to the controllers, the 25 pin connectors and anything else I could disconnect without tools, still no motor power. I ended up calling a tow truck and got home about an hour later. I guess that was one way of avoiding that pesky dentist appointment I had a 4:00pm. Razz

Anyway, I was flying out of town on Friday morning to go to Green Bay for the weekend so I didn't have time to worry about the truck.

Since I got home really late Sunday night (someone decided to have a roll over accident on I-65 south about 20 miles north of Nashville and I got to sit on the highway for about an hour and a half) so I didn't worry about the truck until today. I had plugged it in to make sure it was charged when I returned and when I first tested it, it worked.... Hmmm.

The truck did this when I first put new batteries in it 6 months ago but I could never figure out what happened to it then because it started working all by itself then, too.

Anyone have this happen to them and were able to figure out the cause?

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Jeff Wilson
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Art Marquardt



Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 99
Location: 625 N25th st Sheboygan,Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Bupkiss Reply with quote

Jeff:

Doesn't that sound like the circuit that prevents the car from moving when you turn on the key and the selector switch has been left in the wrong position. I'm not saying that is what happened just wondering if that could cause it if the circuit malfunctioned. As I recall you get everything except traction drive. The wiring goes from the sw to the ignition box and from there to the controller see page 55 figure 1. I believe the circuit is called neutral interlock. It would be nice if there was an actual schematic it is hard to troubleshoot a black box. Take a close look at the 25 pin connector to the controller.
The other circuit that could fail and do it would be the charger interlock crkt. Just some wild suggestions hard to test an intermittant problem. Question
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ThomasHudson
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Port Washington WI

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thought: Was it raining when this happened, Jeff?

I just remembered I had something like this happen to me a couple of years ago, but it was just in the driveway, so it didn't leave such a big impression. In my case, I had been driving the truck in the rain, got home and parked it, then went to move it a little later and it wouldn't go. Voltage was OK, everything else was working but the controllers.

A couple of hours later I went out to start troubleshooting it and it worked right away.

The only thing I figured might have happened is that maybe water got into the connectors between the ignition boxes and the motor controllers and screwed up some signals, then dried out, but now that I think about it, that doesn't make any sense because it wouldn't go at all, and I doubt that both controllers' connectors could get simultaneously fouled by water.

So the mystery continues. It has to be a bad signal from either the charger interlock, or the neutral interlock. Those are the only things I can think of that disable both controllers.

And after a bit more thinking, I guess it could be water fouling some contacts because I'd bet those signal lines for those inerlocks are shared between controllers, so if one gets fouled, the other one does as well.

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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom and Art,
Thanks for the replies. While it wasn't raining or even had been, I think you are both right about the charger or neutral interlocks. I have found no my truck, that neither of them are working properly. Like I told Tom, I can drive my truck with the cord plugged in. I've done it before in the garage when I needed to move the truck forward or backward a few inches. I've also turned on the key with the selector in forward (normal) range and did not need to turn it off to reset the system to move.

Since both are evidently not working properly, it is quite possible (probable even) that one or the other failed at that point and left me stranded.

I've done some thinking on this as well and realized that the first time this happened was right after putting the new batteries in it. I had not charged them yet and the truck wouldn't move. It was late and so I plugged in the charger to bring the bats up to full charge. The next morning when I went to do more trouble shooting, I opened up the control box, couldn't find any connection loose and put it back in place. When I tried it, it worked.

This second time, I got the truck home and plugged it in and when I got back from my trip and went to trouble shoot it on Monday, it was working again. My guess is that it is the charger interlock that is failing and plugging it in to charge reset the interlock. I will have to look into this and see if that relay, or what ever it is, can be replaced.

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Jeff Wilson
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Art Marquardt



Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 99
Location: 625 N25th st Sheboygan,Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: charger interlock Reply with quote

Jeff:

If you go in, see if you can document the circuit as in schematic and pictures. It would be nice if each time someone went into a otherwise undocumented area they did this. Over time we would have a good database from which to service our vehicles. Troubleshooting guides are all fine and well, however, when you really have strange problems you need schematics.
Does anyone know what kind of information is transfered over the 25 pin connectors is this bidirectional data or simply switch positon information and is it digital or analog? Is their an A/D convertor in the ignition box or is it in the controller?
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ThomasHudson
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Port Washington WI

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, Art. I've never looked at that part of the circuitry, either, and I don't think I've ever seen anything on whether the interlocks are normally high or low logic, etc.
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Tom Hudson
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'd like to get into it this weekend, but alas, I am off to Arizona to see my parents. It will have to wait until next week or weekend. Too much at one time.... I'll keep everyone posted on my progress. By the way, it has been running just fine this week. One never knows....
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Jeff Wilson
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Tom Simon



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Similiar problems?? Reply with quote

I never should have bragged how dependable my truck has been. I drove to a neighbor's house in a heavy down pour and after several hours went to drive home. It had stopped raining and I backed out into the road and the truck wouldn't go in forward. All accessories in the cab were working. It was getting dark so I checked fuses and not finding any bad ones got a ride home.
The next day I raised the bed and found it pretty damp around the controllers and the connectors. There was about a 1/4" of road dirt that was soggy. I pulled all the connectors apart and cleaned and dried them as best I could.
I started by unplugging the 25 pin connector on the passengers side to that side controller and found that the truck would try to go in forward and reverse with very little power. I next plugged the same drivers side 25 pin connector into the passengers side controller and found the same result.
I next plugged the passenger side 25 pin connector into, first the drivers side controller and then the passengers side controller and found that it didn't matter whether the forward reverse switch was in forward, neutral, or reverse, the truck would always go in reverse. It acted like it was stuck in reverse.
I checked the forward reverse switch and the power pot with a continuity tester and both seemed to check out OK. I next opened the ignition boxes that are in the console and found that the continuity was not the same on both circuit boards where the red, green and black wires attached from the forward reverse switch. I'm guessing some bad components on the passengers side circuit board although nothing appears to have been fried. I also checked to make sure I had the 12V keyed white wire power coming into both ignition boxes and each was good.
Has anyone had any similiar experiences with the ignition boxes? Any parts available? Unfortunately being 4 th of July weekend, nobody is waiting to take my call at Azure...
Any advice appreciated. Thanks,
Tom Simon
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a strange one. I can't imagine why you would be haveing trouble inside the control box since they certainly didn't get wet. Before you took it apart, you said you could go in reverse but not forward. That would lead me to believe that nothing was wrong with the control box but more likely your controllers were wet inside. I guess I would try to let it dry out some more and see where you go from there. If it was running before you turned it off, it sounds like you have a water problem on a component outside the truck like the controllers. Once water gets in, it is hard to get it out. You may even have to open the controllers and see if they are wet inside. I don't remember who, but one of us on this list had water inside a controller at one time.
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Jeff Wilson
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The person with the wet controller was me. I had purchased it from Azure less than a year before the problem occured, so I just sent it back under warranty.

I had some machine work done to shorten the heat sink. The controllers are the newer UMOC445TF model. The heat sink was literally 3 or 4 times taller than the UMOC340 I took out. It would not fit under the bed. I had 1/2 inch shaved off and installed much shorter fans. I am guessing the seal may have been compromised by the machine shop. Perhaps they removed some screws and did not silicone them when they put it back together. That is just a guess.

When it arrived back at Azure, Kevin Doherty open it up and dried it out. After drying, it was fine. However, unlike your situation, it became wet while parked in my driveway and never was driven when wet.

It had so much water in it, the brake light circuit activated. I discovered it when I looked out my window in the evening and the brake lights were on. I pulled the fuse and went back inside. The next morning I started checking things. I thought the brake light switch was bad. I put the fuse back in and the lights did not illuminate immediately, but within a minute or two they were back on.

I checked the brake light switch and it was fine. The lights did not go off until I unplugged the regen brake circuit. Then, I knew I had real problems. Fortunately, it was completely dead and the high voltage circuit never energized. I guess a circuit breaker or fuse inside tripped.

This problem has convinced me the controllers need total weather protection. Others have told me of water ingress problems in the Solectria motor controllers. Even the founder of Solectria (James Worden) said there can be water ingress problems. He suggested placing a garage door seal between the bed and cab to help prevent water from flowing off the roof of the cab and down between the bed and cab onto the battery box lid. I guess the right conditions can lead to the water landing on the controllers.

I think the brusa controllers may be more weather proof. I have not heard of the problem in the E10s with them.

My project E10 is going to be an extended cab and I plan to install the controller inside the cab behind the seats along with the charger. At least I'll get the benefit of the heat off the controller in the colder months. I will install some ducting to route it out of the cab in the warmer months.

I am going to try and figure out some type of protective enclosure for the E10 I am driving right now. The problem is tryng to keep cool air going in while keeping water out. I have some ideas. There just isnt much room to work with under the bed.

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Tom Simon



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Follow up to July Problem Reply with quote

Wow, It's September already. Back in July I had a problem where the truck would only go in reverse after a heavy downpour. I was certain the problem must be due to moisture. After much troubleshooting, I finally jacked up the rear axle and discovered that I couldn't move the driver's side wheel forward. The E-brake cable was stuck on. I couldn't get it to release so I removed the shoes and clamped the wheel cylinder and away I went! I felt foolish! I took the truck to the shop to get new E-brake cables and the factory cannot match up the front cables using the vin#. Has anyone else replaced the front e-brake cables and found matches to the ones that are on the truck? No response from Solectria on an e-mail inquiry.
I also noticed a short time after that I had difficulty getting started on some small hills on occasion. Sometimes I had to backup to get a running start. Thank goodness there isn't much traffic in the boonies of Vermont.
After another round of troubleshooting, the only thing I could find was that I must have reversed the 25 pin cable connections to the controllers. I didn't think it would matter but apparently it does because after switching back, everything seems OK. Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Simon
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Tom Simon



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Follow up to July Problem Reply with quote

Wow, It's September already. Back in July I had a problem where the truck would only go in reverse after a heavy downpour. I was certain the problem must be due to moisture. After much troubleshooting, I finally jacked up the rear axle and discovered that I couldn't move the driver's side wheel forward. The E-brake cable was stuck on. I couldn't get it to release so I removed the shoes and clamped the wheel cylinder and away I went! I felt foolish! I took the truck to the shop to get new E-brake cables and the factory cannot match up the front cables using the vin#. Has anyone else replaced the front e-brake cables and found matches to the ones that are on the truck? No response from Solectria on an e-mail inquiry.
I also noticed a short time after that I had difficulty getting started on some small hills on occasion. Sometimes I had to backup to get a running start. Thank goodness there isn't much traffic in the boonies of Vermont.
After another round of troubleshooting, the only thing I could find was that I must have reversed the 25 pin cable connections to the controllers. I didn't think it would matter but apparently it does because after switching back, everything seems OK. Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Simon
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Tom Simon



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Follow up to July Problem Reply with quote

Wow, It's September already. Back in July I had a problem where the truck would only go in reverse after a heavy downpour. I was certain the problem must be due to moisture. After much troubleshooting, I finally jacked up the rear axle and discovered that I couldn't move the driver's side wheel forward. The E-brake cable was stuck on. I couldn't get it to release so I removed the shoes and clamped the wheel cylinder and away I went! I felt foolish! I took the truck to the shop to get new E-brake cables and the factory cannot match up the front cables using the vin#. Has anyone else replaced the front e-brake cables and found matches to the ones that are on the truck? No response from Solectria on an e-mail inquiry.
I also noticed a short time after that I had difficulty getting started on some small hills on occasion. Sometimes I had to backup to get a running start. Thank goodness there isn't much traffic in the boonies of Vermont.
After another round of troubleshooting, the only thing I could find was that I must have reversed the 25 pin cable connections to the controllers. I didn't think it would matter but apparently it does because after switching back, everything seems OK. Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Simon
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Tom, No help on either front. Interesting about switching the 25 pin connectors. I didn't think it mattered either.
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Jeff Wilson
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