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Air Conditioning Motor
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Air Conditioning Motor Reply with quote

Hello to EVeryone....
Well, now that it's hot, of course I don't have A/C. My A/C motor never did run and it wasn't a problem until it got to 100 degrees. Now that it's hotter than haities, I really need A/C on the way home from work. So I spent some time this morning looking into why it would blow a fuse every time I tried to turn on the A/C. Seems that since this truck was from Phoenix, the A/C must have been used a lot because the motor is zorched! There is a burn and plasma arc between two com bars. Sad I'm not sure if the motor is salvagable or not.

Before I try to get it fixed, is there anyone out there with a spare that would be willing to sell it? Very Happy

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Jeff Wilson
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jeff,

I am sad to tell you that two were recently sold by Jimmy Argon with new compressors on ebay. The really bad news is that one sold for something like $850 and the other about $500. One person in particular seems to be buying up all the solectria stuff on ebay and seems to have no limit on what he will pay.

I'll bet I could sell my truck in parts on ebay for much more than I could get as a whole. I would never do this, but it is interesting the trucks seem to worth less than the sum of their components.

Tomorrow I will be getting my AC motor controller back from a buddy of mine that did some work on it. Before I hook it up, I plan to take the motor to a shop that can test it. Well, I hope they can test it. I am concerned a problem with the motor may have caused my controller to burn up.

When I take my motor in I will ask if they have the ability to repair this type of motor or recommend a replacement. I will post my findings.

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Terry Merrell
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Jimmy Argon



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Az

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Air Conditioning Motor Reply with quote

Major,
Yes, Terry is correct, I had two motor and compressor sets for sale. They were NOS and the solectria set up is really engineered well with the timing belt, clutch and controller. The controllers alone sold for $475. new, so I guess that is why they sold for so much.
To trouble shoot yours you can try the following:
+ make sure nothing is siezed up, motor or compressor, loosen and remove the belt to check. If the motor feels like it sticks, inspect the brushes and commutator.
+ Test the motor input wires to see if there is resistance between them, one that has the brushes seated and in running condition sould be less that 5 ohms, the one in my truck is .5 ohms. Check to see if any are shorted to the case, if so check the brushes.
+ Check the brushes, you have 4, if they are the original set they probably need to be replaced. Solectria charges around $30. ea, go to your local electric drill/hand tool repair shop and match a set. You will most likely have to cut the spring shorter. If you cant find any let me know.
+ If all this looks good, try puting 120vdc directly into the motor, If it is good it should spin up.
+ If the motor works and the compressor turns normally it may be your controller.
Let me know how it goes.
Jimmy

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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention that one of the 4 brushes was missing and my motor friend said the additional strain on the remaining 3 brushes probably caused arcing and ultimately the failure. He checked around here with his contacts and couldn't find anyone with a replacement. I'm going to take some pictures and send them to Jim Husted from the EVDL and see what he thinks. I've got continuity on the com but there is a short between the two bars on the com. That will have to be fixed. I was able to hook everything up and when I turned on the switch, the motor spun about a quarter turn and then it hit the shorted bars and blew the fuse again. Now I'm out of fuses but at least I know what the problem is now. The problem may be getting it fixed. The bearings are good and the compressor is good and I do have freon in the system so I just need the motor. My other option is to contact Azure and see if they have a replacement.
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Jeff Wilson
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know the old saying. Something is worth as much as someone is willing to pay.

I have a very basic (my personal drawing) schematic of how the AC motor controller works. It is nothing special. I'll PDF it and post it as a download if anyone is interested. Or perhaps to save the bandwidth, you could email me direct and I will send it to you.

I am actually sort of pleased at the price the parts bring on ebay. It shows there is continued interest in EVs.

I exchanged several email messages with the gentleman that purchased Jimmy's ebay items. He is a dedicated EVer for sure. However, there are no Solectria vehicles in his fleet. He is using the parts in other applications.

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Terry Merrell
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its cool that he is finding a good use for the parts. I just hope Azure doesn't want my as yet unborn first child for that small 1hp motor! Surprised
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Jeff Wilson
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got ahold of Kevin at Azure and he said they have one motor left. He is working up a quote for me. He indicated that the motor vendor was Servo Components and Systems part number BM-F409B-L. I am still waiting for the quote. He said they were kind of expensive when they bought them but they work for all the systems Solectria put together.
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Jeff Wilson
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jeff,

Does that mean they will operate at many different voltages?

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Terry Merrell
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, he said it should operate at voltages from 90 to 300. He did mention that it may require an adjustment to the controller. I guess the controller will alter the amp flow based on the voltage in order to control the rpm.
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Jeff Wilson
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been a bit confused on the differences in the controllers. The original DC30-276 did not have a voltage rating printed on it for the motor. However, the motor did have 144 volts hand printed on it.

I have been unable to locate a DC30-276. However, I have been able to find some DC30-500 controllers. They have 216 volts output and 312 volts input ratings on them.

I took both controllers to a buddy that is an electronics guru. He looked both of them over trying to find differences. He only was able to find a couple resistors which were different. He believes the controller would have worked fine without any modification. Although, he did swap the resistors.

The two are almost identical. He thinks the controllers are current regulated. Basically, he is saying the controllers provide whatever voltage and amp output the motor requires.

I have not installed the controller yet as I first want to have my motor tested. If the motors are designed to accept a great range of voltage, this would help explain things and alleviate my concerns.

After researching similar motors on the net, I did find a very similar motor which operates at an input voltage ranging from 100 to 300 VDC. My knowledge of DC motor operation is somewhat basic.

Does this variable voltage process seem logical?

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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does to me. That's kind of what Kevin was explaining to me but I'm not sure he understood it all himself. He never did email me with a price quote on the motor and I couldn't find a replacement from his source. They had other motors that might work, but the company is in the UK.

Baldor makes a very close servo motor. I think these are originally servo motors.

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Jeff Wilson
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For testing, I will be taking my AC motor to a local place that repairs all kinds of electric motors. I will ask them if they can recommend a replacement.

Also, Kevin must be a very busy person. Sometimes you have to nag him a bit, but do it in a nice way. He can be very helpful when he has the time.

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Terry Merrell
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terryjm1



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 119
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Possible replacement motor? Reply with quote

http://www.mcg-net.com/electric_motors/downloads/brush_motors/ID33004.pdf

Think this one might work.

Terry

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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. That looks to be almost identical to our motors. I will have to get a price quote since Kevin never called me.

My motor did have a short to the armature. I'm going to see what it will cost to have it rewound.

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Jeff Wilson
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MajorWilson



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Peoria, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The story continues. I sent the motor off to Jim Husted of Hi-Torque Electric. I know I probably could have gotten it done here in Nashville, but I wanted to support the EV community. Jim looked it over and sure enough, it has a short to the armature. It will have to be rewound. Confused He sent if off to one of his sub shops that he uses for rewinding. The way he explained it is that the windings on these motors have no insulation so the wraps can vibrate and wear on the armature. This will eventually cause a short as mine did. I'm sure that because this truck was in Phoenix it's whole life, it probably used the A/C more than ususal and thus had more vibration. Anyway, the rewinders will insulate the windings so they won't short out again. I should have a better motor when I get it back than what I started with. Smile Don't know the cost yet but shouldn't be more than $200 including shipping. Jim is going to also fix my brush problem, turn the com, replace the bearings, and clean it all up for me as well. Should be better than new. Very Happy
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Jeff Wilson
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